Posted by: mjaga | May 22, 2011

Ahaadeeth

Qur’aanic Verse 3.31:

3.31

Transliteration:

31. Qul in kuntum tuhibboona Allaha faittabiAAoonee yuhbibkumu Allahu wayaghfir lakum thunoobakum waAllahu ghafoorun raheemun

Translation:

31. Say, “If you do love Allah, obey me. Allah will then love you and forgive you your sins.35 to 37 And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.”

 

Study Notes:

 

35. Allah loving us and forgiving our sins is apparently made conditional to our obeying His Messenger (peace upon him). At the time when the Messenger was living among mankind here in this world, this divine directive obviously meant that all directions of the Messenger, whether in matters of religion or of administration, were to be obeyed scrupulously. But what should the position be now when the Messenger is no longer living among mankind? A majority of Muslims believe that obeying the Messenger means following his Sunnah as described in authentic ahaadeeth. But who decides whether any hadeeth is authentic or not?

36. Allah has guaranteed the protection of the Qur’aan (Verse 15.9). There is, however, no such divine protection guaranteed for the ahaadeeth. And the ahaadeeth were floating from mouth to mouth for generations till some of them were recorded in writing, for the first time, at least 150 years after the death the Prophet (peace be upon him). There is likelihood, therefore, of the ahaadeeth having been contaminated and interpolated with the personal opinions and words of the narrators. The Allah-perfected Religion of Islam could not therefore be based on such an unreliable source. It is based solely on the Qur’aan now. This does not mean that the ahaadeeth are to be completely discarded. They are invaluable in the sense that they give us the historical perspective of the era in which our Prophet lived. But any hadeeth, that is basically contradictory to the teachings of the Qur’aan, has to be rejected outright. The Qur’aan is, and ought to be, the criterion.

37. Obeying the Messenger ought now, therefore, to mean following the Qur’aan.

=================================

The above is an extract from Qur’aanic Studies Manzil I.

Mohammad Shafi

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Responses

  1. Salam brother. Your conclusive remark is unfortunately contradictory to your starting interpretation of Quran verses urging Muslims to follow the prophet. If following the Quran was enough, why would Allah exhort us throughout Quran to follow messenger as well … and also warn us that unless we follow him, we cannot be a Muslim (follower of Allah). So, instead of rejecting the hadeeth completely, as you have done in conclusion, why not try to weigh the hadeeth against the teachings of Qura rather than rejecting them outright. When I try to do the same, I find almost all the ahadeeth to be in line with the teaching of Quran. The intention to follow the prophet should be paramount as per the commandment of Allah. If we followed a contaminated hadeeth, which did not violate any commandments of Quran, we should not be made liable for the fault, because Allah does not burden us more than we can take …..
    I have serious doubt about your ability to interpret Quran, and would urge you to stop forthwith … it will be much better to contemplate on the spirit of Islam for some more time, before resuming your journey again.
    May Allah bless us all with hidayah of the right deen!

    Mohammad Shafi responds:
    Brother! It is apparent that you have not read my blog post carefully. I would strongly advise you do that. You have to obey the Rasool, and not hearsays.

    • Brother Mohammad Shafi,
      Salam. I have responded after reading your entire post. You are trying to hoodwink. You say “You have to obey the Rasool”, but you term all the sayings and deeds of Rasool as hearsays …. this is your concept of obedience! In one line you say that his sayings that reach us should be judged against the commandments of Allah … fair enough, but in the last paragraph you say, no hadith can be followed, that is by the end of your write-up, you conclude that all ahadith are only hearsays!! And you accuse me of not reading your write-up!! What a hyproctitic way of rejecting hadith …!! May Allah purify our understandings and bless us with hidayah! May Allah help us love the deeds of the blessed prophet, his behavours, and help us reach the true guidance received through him – guidance that are recorded in Quran and guidance that are not recorded therein!!

      • Lakum deenukum waliya seen, brother!

      • Brother Mohammad Shafi, my deen is Islam that was given to the prophet Muhammad Sallallaho Alaihe Wasallam as a book called Quran, and as other instructions not contained in Quran. What is your deen?

        Mohammad Shafi responds:
        My Islam is the Truth as perfected by my Lord in His last Message for mankind, The Qur’aan. It is not contaminated by the man-influenced and error-prone ahaadeeth

  2. [Plz, don’t add inline comments]
    Denying history doesn’t make any change.
    Sufian Thauri died in 161 hijri, means 148 years after the death of Rasool(saw) – how he wrote hadith 150 years after?
    Imam Malik whose birth is 94 hijri, died in 179, he wrote book all of a sudden after 150 years?
    Ibn-e-Shihab-Alzohri died in 120 hijri, he wrote ahadith after 150 years?
    There are many others who wrote even before these writers.

    For the God sake, why you propagate lie?

    If your forefather name who died 100 years before you is told to you by your father, will you believe or not? how you believe mouth to mouth here? or you are in doubt about forefathers?

    If aayat is safe ‘follow rasool’ then how you think Sunnah will die but Allah(swt) is oredering to follow? Quran is till Qiamat, so following Rasool is order till Qiamat.

    Regards,
    Humayun.

    • I leave it to Allah almighty as to who is telling lies about ahaadeeth.

      The Qur’aan, containing most authentic ahaadeeth, is indeed mashaAllah till Qiyamat. Truth shall triumph & falsehood perish!

      • How can we leave this to Allah(swt) (means for day of judgement) while it is fact we can’t come back for second life. It means what is truth and what is false is proved, otherwise how it can be base of decission?

        Sunnah, complete code of life of Rasool(saw), has to be followed, it should be firm belief, if you are in doubt and leaving to Alllah(swt) then I advise you to stop propagating your doubtful information.

        If you are sure then why leaving to Allah(swt)?

        I know it is last argument of answerless guy, that leave it to Allah(swt).

        Regards,

      • What can one do when 2 persons do not agree? Call for the old-fashioned sword-fight to decide the issue? In our circumstance, there is no alternative but to leave the matter to Allah. Didn’t Allah Almighty tell Rasoolullah to say lakum deenukum waliya deen to the Kuffar of his day?

      • One of us is Kaafir !!

        Allah(swt) said many places in different ways to follow Rasool(saw) – so it is decided that who will follow Rasool(saw) he is right and who don’t follow he is wrong.
        Here is black and white;
        مَّنْ يُطِعِ الرَّسُولَ فَقَدْ أَطَاعَ اللّهَ – النساء -٨٠
        He who follows Rasool indeed followed Allah.

        My belief is same as above aayat.

        Now can you present aayat saying that;
        Obeying the Messenger mean following the Qur’aan.

        If you have no answer it is clear that this is from your Nafs not from Quran.

        Regards,

      • Qur’aan told believers to obey the Rasool. It did not tell them to follow hearsays.

      • Don’t mingle up the things, Rasool ofcourse follow Quran, but he also tell details which are sometimes not mentioned in Quran, so my concern is only that – you are denier of that detail, and above quoted aayat is ordering to follow that detail.
        There is no contradiction between Quran and Sunnah.
        There is a copy/pste circulating on net, but that is just a wrong.
        Regards,

      • You are mingling things up, Humayun! You’re mingling Rasool (Allah forbid) with hearsays.

      • You are falsly calling Hadith a hearsay.

      • All ahaadeeth contrading the Qur’aan are hearsays.

      • Also, there is no contradiction between Quran and hadith.
        It is again false statement issued by Mr. Shafi.
        Regards,

        Mohammad Shafi responds:
        May Allah Almighty judge whose statement is false. HE won’t make any mistake as you & I may.

    • Brother Shafi, you said “All ahaadeeth contrading the Qur’aan are hearsays.”
      So, what about the rest?
      If a single hadith, according to you is authentic, then your claim “Obeying the Messenger ought now, therefore, to mean following the Qur’aan.” is ABSOLUTELY FALSE, FALSE, FALSE and a Billion times FALSE …!
      Unless you have invented your own method of prayer, you will not find the method of praying in Quran, and you will need to consult Hadith for that, whether transmitted to you through your ancestors or through the hadith books … and these of course don’t contradict the Quran … so they must be authentic according to your parameters of authenticity. Based upon the same parameter, numerous other ahadith should be considered authentic by you … then why plunge yourself in falsehood and try to carry us along?? What benefits do you derive from this?

      Mohammad Shafi responds:
      The Truth, Brother, cannot become false even if you do nothing but go on declaring it false continuously till your death. On the Judgment Day you may find, to your utter horror, that all your efforts were in vain. Why are you committing blasphemy against the divine Document, Brother!? This document repeatedly declares that it contains all the necessary details and has neglected nothing! Why are you bent upon ruining yourself Brother?

  3. Salam brother M. S. Agha,
    <<>>
    Alhamdulillah, this is an extremely simple fact that most of today’s Muslims fail to grasp. I wonder how educated people manage to falter in adding 2 + 2 = 4! They not only miss the fact you mentioned above, they also miss a whole bunch of other similarly OBVIOUS things in the Book of Allah. For example, the word “Hadith” has not been used in the Qur’an anywhere in the sense of “sayings of the Prophet”, not the word “Sunnah” has been used in the sense of “practice of the Prophet”, even though these words have used multiply in the Qur’an at many different places. How did they miss all that. It seems to me that there is an elephant in the closet which they fail to see with open eyes. What are the odds of that happening?
    Even more than the ‘elephant in the closet’, is the fact that Allah guaranteed victory and success to those follow His commands.
    “We have decreed that the believers will be victorious.” (30:47)

    “GOD will support with victory those who support Him. GOD is powerful,
    Almighty.” (22:40)

    “GOD will surely defend those who believe. GOD does not like any betrayer,
    disbeliever.” (22:38)

    “O you who believe, if you support GOD, He will grant you victory, and
    strengthen your foothold.” (47:7)
    So I have to ask 1.4 billion people in the world who dare to claim that they are Muslims: WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME, YOU HAD VICTORY AND SUCCESS??? Isn’t that obvious that they are NOT following the commands of Allah?
    I am not saying—as you pointed out too—that everything reported in the name of the blessed Messenger of Allah is wrong but I cannot use the word “AUTHENTIC” for any of these sayings because I do not have credible evidence for them. At the most, I can take a hadith and try to analyze it, not on the basis of some “ASNAAD” because that would be ridiculous for me to do, but on the basis of its conformity with, or absence of contradiction ore additional information in the Qur’an. Thus, to me, a hadith can only be “possibly true” or “most like true” but never AUTHENTIC. I think using the word AUTHENTIC and then making it a part of religion is manifest SHIRK.
    Irfan

  4. sone of the ahadeeth are false and some can be followed as stated by their way oif recording from mouth to mouth

  5. Respected brother Irfan,
    Salam. From the arguments put forward by you, the way you perform your prayers is at the most “possibly correct” or “most like correct”, but you can never call it authentic, is it not?

    Mohammad Shafi responds:
    Prayers that conform to Qur’aanic directives can ever be called authentic.

  6. Assalam Alaikum

    The write is absolutely misguided, and now i wonder what is his qualification to make tafsir of quraan and not only do that but to publish it and spread it around as well.

    Mohammad Shafi responds:
    It is for Allah Almighty to judge who it is that is absolutely misguided. What I publish are my study notes of Qur’aanic Verses. It is the duty of every Muslim to study those Verses and to tell the truth. All text in bold below are my responses.

    The Victory for a muslim does not mean anything in this world, the actual and precious victory is the one of the hereafter. which is our Imaan that a muslim who follows Quraan and Sunnah will most certainly get as promised by Allah his Rasool SAW.

    Sunnat-ar-Rasool is nowhere mentioned in the Qur’aan. Only Sunnat-Allah is mentioned. Following the Qur’aan was the Rasool’s Sunnah.

    if you deny that there is nothing like “Authentic” hadith then you absolutely have no understanding about how Hadith works.

    Ahaadeeth mentioned in the Qur’aan are no doubt authentic.

    and one last question which i ask you is how do you pray salat and how can you be sure that the methodology that you follow for salat is correct ? after all that also you get from Sahi Ahadeeth only, and not from quraan.

    I try to say my Salah as per Qur’aanic directives, the strict compliance of which should make the methodology correct. Your statement that the Qur’aan does not give the methdology is heresy for which you are answerable to Allah Almighty.

    or do you just skip salat by saying that there is no method of salat mentioned in quraan so you are free to make your own salat?

    Brother! You’re indulging in mockery – not just against me but against the Holy Book! Fear Allah please!!

    Wassalam
    Syed M.

    • Kindly point us towards the relevant verses which tell us how to pray salat.

      • Brother, don’t ask him, he will even deny prayer 🙂 or deny it being on certain time [these people differ with each other even].
        They don’t know that ‘Sunnat’ is word used for Allah(swt) but also for other human being, then how it can’t be used for Rasool !
        So he is denier, and his only point is that why exact word ‘Sunnat-e-Rasool’ is not used. So you can understand how much ignorat his demand can be.
        He is commanding Allah(swt) that if we have to follow Rasool then use this specific word – inallillah – I am sure if Allah(swt) used this word then these people raise some other objection, because their rule is to deny whatsoever is there.
        Regards,

      • It is you who is the denier, brother! The Qur’aan says it contains all necessary details; but you heretically deny it to justify the man-influenced, error-prone ahaadeeth.

      • In the chronological order of their occurrence in the Qur’aan, the Verses are: 2.238, 4.103, 7.29, 7.56, 7.205, 11.114, 17.78, 20.14, 23.2, 23.9, 70.23, 107.5.

      • Quran contains all necessary detail, including the order that follow life and orders of Rasool(saw) (I have quoted many times in your other blog posts). You are denying or me? Where is life detail of Rasool(saw) in Quran? If not there then is Quran ordering a thing that can’t be followed?

        Mohammad Shafi responds:
        The Qur’aan contains all the necessary details about the life of the Prophet (peace on him). Search for it and you will find it. The Qur’aan orders only those things that are implementable by humans It does not lay impossible burdens on mankind. I smell blasphemy in your questions, Brother!

      • Brother Sahfi,
        What a sequence of acts of prayer you have given to claim that if we follow the Quran alone, without bothering for any hadith, our 5 obligatory prayers would be complete! Subhanallah!
        Here is the sequence offered by you: 2.238, 4.103, 7.29, 7.56, 7.205, 11.114, 17.78, 20.14, 23.2, 23.9, 70.23, 107.5
        In attempt to prove the heresies emanating from the evil-controlled corners of your mind, you did not even fear assigning falsehood to Allah! Your sequence begins with the middle prayer (without describe how to perform even that prayer) and masha-Allah, ends with “Who are neglectful of their prayers” (Allah’s complete saying, here is, “So woe to the worshippers Who are neglectful of their prayers”). It’s is surprising that You, the one who wants to explore Quran, is not even mindful of the woe from Allah! Hereunder, I produce the ayas that completes your prayer, for all to see what you mean, in exactly the same sequence as given by you:
        2:238 Guard strictly your (habit of) prayers, especially the Middle Prayer; and stand before Allah in a devout (frame of mind).
        4.103 When ye pass (Congregational) prayers, celebrate Allah.s praises, standing, sitting down, or lying down on your sides; but when ye are free from danger, set up Regular Prayers: For such prayers are enjoined on believers at stated times.
        7:29 Say: “My Lord hath commanded justice; and that ye set your whole selves (to Him) at every time and place of prayer, and call upon Him, making your devotion sincere as in His sight: such as He created you in the beginning, so shall ye return.”
        7:56 Do no mischief on the earth, after it hath been set in order, but call on Him with fear and longing (in your hearts): for the Mercy of Allah is (always) near to those who do good.
        7.205 And do thou (O reader!) Bring thy Lord to remembrance in thy (very) soul, with humility and in reverence, without loudness in words, in the mornings and evenings; and be not thou of those who are unheedful.
        11.114 And establish regular prayers at the two ends of the day and at the approaches of the night: For those things, that are good remove those that are evil: Be that the word of remembrance to those who remember (their Lord):
        17.78 Establish regular prayers – at the sun’s decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading: for the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony.
        20.14 “Verily, I am Allah. There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.
        23.2 Those who humble themselves in their prayers;
        23.9 And who (strictly) guard their prayers;-
        70.23 Those who remain steadfast to their prayer;
        107.5 Who are neglectful of their prayers,

      • Qur’aan says its Verses lead some to right guidance, but many others go astray despite the guidance provided. It appears you belong to the latter category.

        I had made it clear that the Verses I had quoted were in the order in which they occur in the Qur’aan, but you deliberately & mischievously & falsely implied in your response that I had given the sequence of prayers thereby.

        Since you’re bent upon straying away from Qur’aanic

      • Continuing my last response which was accidentally sent before it was completed, I reiterate that the Qur’aan gives complete details of how to perform salah. But those who don’t believe in the oft-repeated Qur’aanic assertion that it gives all necessary details, seek the details elsewhere in a heretical way.

        It is therefore no use explaining to persons like you how the divine Verses themselves give the necessary details. Your sick mind will seek nothing but making fun of any person trying.

        But nevertheless let me point out one example of how sick mind works. I had quoted Verse 107.5 to tell you (thinking that you’re a sane, Allah-fearing man) that Allah requires thereby that those who offer prayers should not be indifferent to what they say in their prayers. But the sickness in your mind prompted you to make fun of me instead. Your behaviour was just like those kuffar rediculing the Prophet (peace on him) on his announcement of new divine revelations at Makkah.

        It’s no use continuing this correspondence with you any more.

  7. If we do not have the hadith, how do we pray?This was the question of those who follow the Hadith as a source of guidance.

    In sura Al Muzzammil which was the 3rd Sura as per the order of revelation to Prophet mohammed, mentioned Salat and Zakat. Which indicates that these religious practices were well known and were practiced.

    The Quran clearly states that the obligatory prayers and all other religious observances of Islam were originally taught to Abraham. All the prophets and their true followers since Abraham practiced them, but, as the Quran also informs us, later generations, including the Arabs at the advent of Prophet Muhammad, had lost these prayers. The prayers of the Arabs at the Shrine at the time were described by the Quran as “no more than deceit and alienation.”

    This is confirmed by early historical sources, such as Ibn Ishaq’s biography of the Prophet. All these conclusively prove that our salat prayers today were not originally given to Muhammad during the Night Journey, as the Traditionists claim.
    A moment’s thought will also make us realize that we do not learn how to pray from the hadith. We learn to do so from our parents and teachers who inherit the practice through the generations from the first source, that is Prophet Abraham.
    Although the Quran needs no longer teach us how to pray, since we have learnt and practiced it from the time of Abraham, still it gives us the main features of salat prayer, i.e. the normal ablution (5:6), the abnormal ablution (4:43), the proper dress (7:31), standing and facing the qiblah (2:144), the times (11:114, 17:78, 24:58, 2:238, 30:17-18 and 20:130), the bowing and prostrating (2:43,125,3:42, 22:77, 48:29), using moderate voice when saying prayers (17:110), not calling anyone else besides God in prayer (72:18) and modified mode of prayer at unusual times (4:101,103). It is quite obvious that many important details regarding the mode of prayer are given in the Quran.

    • 1-
      Who told you Sura Muzzamil was 3rd in sequence of revealation? Prove your claim from Quran or accept you know nothing.

      2-
      Whatever Ibn-e-Ishaq says is hearsay or not, how you confirm that?

      What your heart want you accept, what it not like you reject !
      The narration that can reject Hadith you accept that, riwayat from same narraters you call hearsay !

      It is very baad division you people have done!

      Regards,

      • No reply from Mr. Sahafi ?

        Mohammad Shafi responds:
        Reply to what Brother? I have replied to all ahaadeeth wordhippers.

      • Because he has no answer 🙂
        Same thought of writing ‘new islam’ after retirement – without understanding.
        They steal reasoning from books of ehl-e-sunnat, so when they deny at other place they become answerless – one of the example is above. He deny hadith but forgetfully quoted hadith for his resoning.
        Same chain of narrators told it is 3rd Surah – he accepted – same chain of narrator will say something else he will call that ‘chain of hearsay’.

        Regards,
        Humayun.

        Mohammad Shafi responds:
        If you are referring to Najeeb’s comments, let him reply to you. The chronological order of revelation is not important with Allah Almighty, and therefore the Qur’aan is not in that order. The chronological order as derived from the ahaadeeth may not be cent percent correct.

      • Brother Humayoon,
        I have given the details of salat paryer from the Quran .Now it is your duty to analyse your salat is according to what Allah’s presribed?

      • Najeeb, I asked for proof of claim. It is clear you have no proof. You want you say and other believe.

        Anyhow, Rasool(saw) and Sahabah(ra) offered prayer in specific way. How can you leave that way and still call yourself muslim? See here;
        وَمَن يُشَاقِقِ الرَّسُولَ مِن بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُ الْهُدَىٰ وَيَتَّبِعْ غَيْرَ سَبِيلِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ نُوَلِّهِ مَا تَوَلَّىٰ وَنُصْلِهِ جَهَنَّمَ ۖ وَسَاءَتْ مَصِيرًا – النساء – 115
        He who opposes Rasool after that right is clear to him and follow path other then believers we will turn him to what way he is going and throw him in Jahannum, a bad place.

        So, way described in hadith is complete and that is way of Rasool and believers (Sahabah, tabaein, Fuqaha, Muhaddithein, etc) – you are going to leave – see what is result.

        Regards,

  8. Brother Najeeb/Shafi

    Can you help us in analyzing if our Salat is in accordance to Quraan or not?

    Can you kindly guide us about where and how we start ?

    Since we do not have any qualification to understand and analyze quraan on our own just like you, we need your help, so kindly dont just point towards quraan, but help us in the a way like a good teacher is supposed to teach.

    Or does it mean that we are doomed that we can not understand everything written in Quraan on our own ? ohh on a second thought maybe i can afford to hire a teacher like you and learn from you but what about my poor neighbour in my old village who says he is a Muslim but can not even read Quraan nor hire anyone to teach him, and frankly you scholars are not being helpful either, just point to the verses but provide no other guidance?

    Lets begin ? shall we ?

    • Before starting Do you believe in the following Quranic Verses
      [6:38] All the creatures on earth, and all the birds that fly with wings, are communities like you. We did not leave anything out of this book**. To their Lord, all these creatures will be summoned
      (39:27)“We have put forth for humans, in this Qur’an, every kind of example so that they may remember”
      (16:89)”And We have revealed the Book to you which has the clear explanation of everything , and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.”
      (7:52)“And certainly We have brought them a Book, which We have detailed with knowledge, a guidance and mercy for a people who believe”
      [18:54] We have cited in this Quran every kind of example, but the human being is the most argumentative creature

      Salaat was not something started by the Prophet Muhammad. It was practiced well before his time by all nations. In fact, the Meccan polytheists also used to practice Salaat, as they were the descendents of Prophet Ibrahim

    • Brother Humayoon , You wrote “So, way described in hadith is complete”

      Tell me the hadith in which Salat is Fully detailed.

      Also Tell me How the people before the time of prophet mohammed performed Salat?

      • OK, first. You accept that your claim was wrong and that was without proof.
        It is wrong to move forward leaving other things in wrong condition.

  9. Humayun you ask me
    1.”Who told you Sura Muzzamil was 3rd in sequence of revealation? Prove your claim from Quran or accept you know nothing.”
    My Ans: Check the availabe Sources and verify is it contradicting my statement.

    2. Whatever Ibn-e-Ishaq says is hearsay or not, how you confirm that?

    I wrote “The Quran clearly states that the obligatory prayers and all other religious observances of Islam were originally taught to Abraham. All the prophets and their true followers since Abraham practiced them, but, as the Quran also informs us, later generations, including the Arabs at the advent of Prophet Muhammad, had lost these prayers. The prayers of the Arabs at the Shrine at the time were described by the Quran as “no more than deceit and alienation.”

    The following Ayaat establish that people before the Prophet Muhammad were also making Salaat:
    Moses and his people performed Salaat: (10:87)
    Shuaib and his followers performed Salaat (11:87)
    Jesus made Salaat all his life: (19:31)
    Ibrahim and his followers were performing Salaat (14:37)(14:40)

    [5:12] GOD had taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we raised among them twelve patriarchs. And GOD said, “I am with you, so long as you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and believe in My messengers and respect them, and continue to lend GOD a loan of righteousness. I will then remit your sins, and admit you into gardens with flowing streams. Anyone who disbelieves after this, has indeed strayed off the right path.”

    • what you guys talk is absolute nonsense

      you say

      Check the availabe Sources and verify is it contradicting my statement.,
      i ask WHAT SOURCES??? why YOU dont mention those sources?

      You say that earlier prophets also prayed salt, i say OK but how you know how they made qiyaam, Sujood Ruku ? if they did 2 Sujood or 7 ?

      how you know all that details?

      did Abba Abraham or any other prophet came and told you or you learned it from Ahadeeth ?

      you guys talk the absolute form of Nonsense possible.

      • Brother Syed Wrote “You say that earlier prophets also prayed salt, i say OK but how you know how they made qiyaam, Sujood Ruku ? if they did 2 Sujood or 7 ? how you know all that details?”

        So you agree that earlier people and earlier Prophets performed Salat.

        Who teach them the Salat?

        “…………..He taught you what you never knew.(2:238,239)

        Did they learned from any Hadith?

        So Salat were practiced at the time of revelation of Quran.

        The Quran deals only with practices that were distorted, for example, the voice tone during the prayer

        17:110 Say, “Call on God or call on the Gracious. Whichever it is you call on, to Him are the best names.” Do not be loud/public in your contact prayer, nor quiet/private; but seek a path in between.*

        The Quran is correcting the tone of the recitation and manner of the sala prayer performed by Meccan polytheists.

        Are you praying in Loud or quietly ? Are you obeying Allah or Are you doing the Salat as per Bukhari’s Guidance?

        And the normal ablution (5:6),
        Are you doing the Correct Ablusion as Allah commanded or Are you Hadith Scholrs.
        And the abnormal ablution (4:43),
        and the proper dress (7:31),
        and standing and facing the qiblah (2:144), and about the times (11:114, 17:78, 24:58, 2:238, 30:17-18 and 20:130), and the bowing and prostrating (2:43,125,3:42, 22:77, 48:29,
        and instruction for not calling anyone else besides God in prayer (72:18)

    • No way, till you not tell what does source means to you nothing can be discussed.
      Quran is source between you and me, and it is not telling which Surah revealed at 3rd number. Quran never mentioned that all Prophets were ordered to offer prayer in same way or in different way, is it impossible that all were ordered to offer in different ways?
      So, till you not mention sources and it’s authenticity nothing can be discussed.
      Regards,
      Humayun.

      • Brother What is the subject unde Discussion?
        Order of revelation of Sura’s ?
        Or About Accepting Hadith as a source of Guidance?

        If it is about Sura Nos, I think it is not important for our Salavation.
        and if it is about Accepting Hadith as a Source of Law. It is very much important for our Eternal life.

      • You proved a thing using sequence of revelation. Thats why I asked about proof.
        You give up your proof I give up my question.
        Rethink about your first answer and comment again.
        Regards,

  10. “In sura Al Muzzammil which was the 3rd Sura as per the order of revelation to Prophet mohammed, mentioned Salat and Zakat. Which indicates that these religious practices were well known and were practiced.”

    I requoted my words above. I concluded that Salat and Zakat were well parctised before Prophet Mohammed.
    In order to proove this We have Quranic verses which I have quoted.
    Prooving Revelation order is not important.

    • Then how you know prayer offered before the time of Prophet(saw) was same as Prophet(saw) offered? You used revalation order as proof.
      Anyway, OK remove revalation order and Ibn-e-Ishaq from you proof and prove that we are offering prayer same as people offered before Rasool(saw).

      • Brother Humayun,
        The Quranic Perspective is very clear on the fact that Abraham was the founder of Islam . He called himself a muslim , and asked God to teach him the rites and practices of the religion. God taught him how to work righteousness, and to observe Salat prayer and Zakat charity (2:128, 22:78, 21:73).
        [16:123] Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham, the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper.

      • Where I denied that Ibrahim(as) was not a Prophet of Islam?
        Where I denied that he(as) and Muhammad(saw) was not taught that how to offer prayer?
        Please listen the question again.
        How Prophet(saw) offered prayer, what he was taught, what will be some certain acts to offer, their sequence and in case someone forget sequence how he will correct, what to recite and what to recite with which action, etc. etc.

      • More specifically, Qiaam is before Sajda, Ruku is after after Sajda, etc. etc. how will someone know sequence – I mean tell any sequence you got.
        Don’t tell me what Quran is saying about prayer, I have read that.
        Tell me where is sequence defined, with each action what to recite and observe.

    • We are not discussing what was practised well before prophet Muhammad PBUH, we are asking you how you know what prophet Muhammad PBUH Practised without Ahadith that you reject?

      how are two things even relevant ??

      • Islam is older than Prophet Mohammed. Prphet Mohammed is a follower of Prophet Ibrahim.

      • you have some serious problem in English comprehension
        cant discuss anything more with you.

  11. Imagine you know what a bicycle is and how to ride it
    If I am telling you ride a bicycle , what you will do?
    Do you ask me , How to sit? Or How to move the Leg? etc
    For salat you agree that it was practiced well before Prophet Mohammed time.
    And it was preserved and well known to the people. So it was not explained in details and Allah Almighty knows it very well, it will be preserved till the last day.
    As I told you The Quran deals only with practices that were distorted and it is mentioned.
    Now Quote any single hadith which describes the complete details of Salat.

    • I ride cycle as I see other to drive.
      Problem is there brother, if I do this for all things you call me mushrik by saying that I am following forefathers.
      Where I said that show me single Aayat or Suuart telling about whole prayer?
      So why you asking me for single hadith?
      Sahabah(ra) quoted at different times about different things as asked, so anyone can collect them in required order, as it is already done by many,
      many times.

    • Forget about the Ahadith,,, you are Munkir-e-Hadith.
      Just prove from Quran, how the Previous Prophets prayed and
      how many rakats and what they did pray in their Rakuh & Sajood?
      If their practice was preserved to the than people, than how
      do you know their practices??? As per your own claim, when
      their practices were not explained in detail, than what do you
      claim,,, to follow Quran is mere a joke and claiming,,, following
      quran is a total mess and nonsense.

      • You will not be asked what the earlier people did. You will be questioned about your own deeds. The Qur’aan explains to you all the necessary details about salaat. Follow the Qur’aan & do not be a munkeer-e-Qur’aan, Shaikh! You may lose your Akhirat otherwise.

  12. You are ranting sheer falsehoods, Brother! That is not good for your health, either physical or moral. Remember you have to face your Lord someday


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